Tag Archives: Andrew McKnight

Radio Crystal Blue and RCB Novus Ordo, week of 9/30/12

Posted on October 3, 2012 | Leave a comment

Radio Crystal Blue: Novus Ordo spotlights CDs that are debuting on my
standard freeform radio program, Radio Crystal Blue. The show exists as a
weekly podcast.

Listen here:
(1) The FeedPlayer on my home page (visible with Flash-supported browsers)
www.radiocrystalblue.net and available to stream/download/share. Click the
pop-up linlk at the ‘home’ tab.
(2) If you cannot view the FeedPlayer, try a different browser, or get
Flash, or try my podcast provider at www.bigcontact.com/radiocrystalblu
(3 mp3: https://radiocrystalblue.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/rcbnew093012.mp3

(4) RSS: www.bigcontact.com/radiocrystalblu/rss

This show was distributed on 10/3/12

Rob, Lately “West Philadelphia” – Haunts session demo CD www.facebook.com/roblately

Corporate Hearts “21 is the New 65” – s/t CD www.facebook.com/corporatehearts
Mat Burke “Blood Stained Blues” – Tattooed Skin & Broken Vinyl CD www.facebook.com/matburkemusic
Black Light White Light “One Fast Move Or I’m Gone” – Infrared Daylight CD www.blacklightwhitelight.com
Attack Ships On Fire “The Magnificent Dr. Zombo” – Vegas Soul CD www.attackshipsonfire.com
Circle “Gorgeous” – The Middle CD www.ilovecircle.com
AJ Downing “Willie (Had We Never Been High)” – Good Day CD www.ajdowning.com
The Universal Thump “To The Border (Wild Raspberries)” – s/t CD www.theuniversalthump.com
Annie Handley “Bring Me Back Alive” – No Shoobie CD www.anniehandley.com
****************
Running time: 70 minutos
****
All content of Radio Crystal Blue’s programming is free to listen and share
to via a Creative Commons License, version 3.0, full attribution,
non-derivative. For more info: www.creativecommons.org

Here’s RCB proper:

Radio Crystal Blue is my long-running standard freeform radio program. The
show exists as a weekly podcast.
Listen here:
(1) The FeedPlayer on my home page (visible with Flash-supported browsers)
www.radiocrystalblue.net and available to stream/download/share. Click the
pop-up link at the ‘home’ tab.
(2) If you cannot view the FeedPlayer, try a different browser, or get
Flash, or try my podcast provider at www.bigcontact.com/radiocrystalblu
(3) .mp3 https://radiocrystalblue.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/rcblive093012.mp3
(4) RSS: www.bigcontact.com/radiocrystalblu/rss

“Hey ho, away we go/We’re on the road to never”
Mirror Ball was the first song I spun on Radio Crystal Blue’s very first show, 12 years ago this week on the Web.

This show was distributed on 10/3/12.
Artists who are appearing at events together are marked by * and **
Opening music: Neil Young & Pearl Jam “Song X” – Mirror Ball CD

***************
These artists are performing as part of the Performance Line at the Folk Alliance Regional Midwest Gathering in St. Louis 10/11-14 www.farmfolk.org :
Elaine Romanelli “Lament” – Real Deal CD www.elaineromanelli.com
Andrew McKnight & Beyond Borders “What Kind Of Person” – One Virginia Night CD www.andrewmcknight.net
Greg Klyma “Limb” – pianomandonation CD www.klyma.com
RJ Cowdery “Blind Side” – In This Light CD www.rjcowdery.com
Jaime Michaels “The Man With The Time Machine” – The Man With The Time Machine CD www.jaimemichaels.com
Chico Schwall “Diggin’ On The New Railroad” (traditional) – Then What’s It For? CD www.chicoschwall.com
Andrew Calhoun “John Henry” (traditional)- Grapevine CD www.andrewcalhoun.com
*************
Kirsten Thien “Treat ‘Im Like A Man” – Delicious CD www.kirstenthien.com
Deborah Lombardi “Something About A Man” – Sweet Revenge CD www.deborahlombardi.com
von Grey “Eyes On Your Honey” – Make Some Noise EP www.vongreymusic.com
Marina V “Weight Of The World” – My Star CD www.marinav.com
Remember September “Do You Remember” – The Roads We Travel CD www.rememberseptemberband.com
Andy Hawk & The Train Wreck Endings “Been Down So Long” – Another Storyline CD www.andyhawk.com
*************
Jamie McLean Band “Been So Low” – Live At Gibson CD www.jamiemcleanband.com
Lisa Bianco “Low” – Momentum CD www.lisabianco.com
Blue Sour “What Am I To Do” – S.U.A.D. CD www.bluesour.com
Social Hero “Bear Skin Rug” – www.socialhero.com
Voxhaul Broadcast “Lost Control” – Frozen Beach EP www.voxhaulbroadcast.com
***********
Aztec Two-Step “War” – Cause & Effect CD www.aztectwostep.com
Marybeth D’Amico “Der Grenzer” – The Light Inside CD www.marybethdamico.com
Paul Sachs “Poor Man’s Out” – Oil Town CD www.paulsachs.com
Joy Kills Sorrow “New Man” – This Unknown Science CD www.joykillssorrow.com
Hungrytown “Sally Lazy” – Any Forgotten Thing CD www.hungrytown.net
**********
Avi Wisnia “More Than Me” – Something New CD www.aviwisnia.com
Lee Feldman “Halo” – Album No. 4 CD www.leefeldman.com
Mark Erelli “Same For Someone” – Little Vigils CD www.markerelli.com
Dan and Faith “I’ve Missed Me” – dreaming of another path CD www.danandfaith.com
Daniel Levi Goans “Thought It’d Never End” – Another Side EP www.daniellevigoans.com
***********
Closing music: Gabrielle Roth & The Mirrors “Speaking Curves” – Jhoom: The Intoxication Of Surrender CD www.ravenrecording.net
Running time: 3 hours, 27 minutos.

All content of Radio Crystal Blue’s programming is free to listen and share
to via a Creative Commons License, version 3.0, full attribution,
non-derivative. For more info: www.creativecommons.org

Next show will be recorded and distributed in the week of 10/7/12

Dan Herman/Radio Crystal Blue:
cblue456@comcast.net
2159952234
www.radiocrystalblue.net
www.facebook.com/radiocblue
www.bigcontact.com/radiocrystalblu
twitter: @radiocblue

Leave a comment

Posted in Uncategorized

Tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Dan herman on music genres

Posted on September 9, 2012 | Leave a comment

Earlier in 2012 in several of my weekly missives steering my audience to news of the show, I openly mused on several genres of music.  I sought to clarify my own definitions of music after musing on this long enough.  So I took fingers to keyboard and added some that came to mind right away.  I’ve added a few since then.  I hadn’t dwelt on these commentaries since.
Fast forward to September, and I had heard from Beth DeSombre on Facebook, who cited that she was not to appear in a local (Massachusetts) folk blog, because she was ‘not folk enough’.  I gave my sympathy and also provided my homespun definition, which she later declared “What a fantastic definition, of folk, Dan! It’s perfect!’

Beth furthered spelled out her own definition of folk here.

I, in turn now share my definition of folk with you, followed by my further thoughts on other genres and expressions:

FOLK is old-style journalism and editorializing. Folk tells stories of what
goes on down-home, across the hall or across picket fences to the neighbors.
Folk comments on politics. Sometimes it even politicks. Folks presents a sense
of community, at once urban, rural, and metaphorical. We can relate to the
music. We can relate to the songwriter. It is our kin, our kinfolk, as it were.
Relatedness. Get it? Listen to storytellers in song like Danny Schmidt as a good
example.

ROOTS music is about our yearning and search for one’s security, one’s roots,
one’s place in one’s heart, one’s earth, one’s universe, as well as one’s
community as with folk. Roots takes us back in time; it doesn’t preach
necessarily. There is a time warp, a reminder of days gone by, as you might have possibly remembered it, or even imagined it. The first roots albums were in a comparative way, roots rock, such as Creedence Clearwater Revival’s take on rockabilly. or Dylan’s ‘Blonde On Blonde’. For an indie comparison, how about Kathleen Edwards, or Mark McKay? And how do we explain Spuyten Duyvil, with those old-time instruments and a youthful spirit making songs fit for the urban landscape? Or The Defibulators, who go steps further and brand something totally their own?

AMERICANA appears to be something that’s not necessarily in the pop category.
Akin to folk, it’s about realism, and not always positive realism. The songs
contain innate meanings of what today’s America is like. Would the songs suggest meanings relevant to the days of yesteryear, they would be called ‘roots’.
Americana differs from roots for its modernism. Remember, there is still the
Great American Songbook, all those jazz standards and easy listening songs out there. That’s not Americana, just a different interpretation. Americana
resembles roots and country and pretty much anything that are not on the major (Billboard, etc.) radio/sales charts. Suggested artists: Mark McKay, Larry McMurtry, Andrew McKnight, Mark Erelli

INDIE…as in ‘independent’. Indie is anything that has the backing of an
indie label, or otherwise is more of a DIY approach. Indie types might have
their own vanity label and studio.  Schwervon! comes to mind as a great success story.

ALTERNATIVE: Alternative to what? Alternative to the majors, Billboard, and
the like. That’s about it, really. There’s no ‘alt’ sound, just the level
of exposure that’s given. An artist can be both indie and alternative but
once one flirts with a major or is on the charts, there goes the alternative
cred.
UNDERGROUND firmly suggests what you think it is..bands and songwriters who are generally unsigned, performing in venues that don’t advertise very much and generally doesn’t have the name recognition as their alternative peers, much less your true household-name types.

Leave a comment

Posted in Uncategorized

Tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Radio Crystal Blue and RCB Novus Ordo 9/2/12

Posted on September 5, 2012 | Leave a comment

Radio Crystal Blue: Novus Ordo spotlights CDs that are debuting on my
standard freeform radio program, Radio Crystal Blue. The show exists as a
weekly podcast.

Listen here:
(1) The FeedPlayer on my home page (visible with Flash-supported browsers)
www.radiocrystalblue.net and available to stream/download/share. Click the
pop-up linlk at the ‘home’ tab.
(2) If you cannot view the FeedPlayer, try a different browser, or get
Flash, or try my podcast provider at www.bigcontact.com/radiocrystalblu
(3 mp3: https://radiocrystalblue.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/rcbnew090212.mp3

(4) RSS: www.bigcontact.com/radiocrystalblu/rss

This show was distributed on 9/5/12

Good Co “Swing It Brother” – Electro Swing For the Masses CD www.goodcomusic.com
Theopolis James “Bummer” – A Different Kind Of Evil CD www.thirstyrecords.com
Har-di-Har “The Parade” – www.facebook.com/hardihar.music
Frank Palangi “Drivin’ These Lines” – s/t EP www.reverbnation.com/frankpalangi
Chris Smither “Rosalie” (hidden track) – Hundred Dollar Valentine CD www.smither.com
Stan Martin “Walk Away” – Distilled Influences CD www.stanmartin.net
Andrew McKnight & Beyond Borders “Dancing In The Rain” – One Virginia Night CD www.andrewmcknight.net
Erin Thomas “Gone” – You Don’t Know Me CD www.sweeterin.com
****************
Running time: 64 minutos
****
All content of Radio Crystal Blue’s programming is free to listen and share
to via a Creative Commons License, version 3.0, full attribution,
non-derivative. For more info: http://www.creativecommons.org
Here’s RCB proper:
Radio Crystal Blue is my long-running standard freeform radio program. The
show exists as a weekly podcast.
Listen here:
(1) The FeedPlayer on my home page (visible with Flash-supported browsers)
www.radiocrystalblue.net and available to stream/download/share. Click the
pop-up link at the ‘home’ tab.
(2) If you cannot view the FeedPlayer, try a different browser, or get
Flash, or try my podcast provider at www.bigcontact.com/radiocrystalblu
(3) .mp3: https://radiocrystalblue.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/rcblive090212.mp3
This show was distributed on 9/5/12.
Artists who are appearing at events together are marked by * and **
“And you’ll never hear surf music again…”
Another RCB tradition, celebrating the unofficial end of summer and beginning of autumn:
Opening music:
The Doors “Bird Of Prey” – An American Prayer
Fatboy Slim “Sunset (Bird Of Prey) – Halfway Between The Gutter And The Stars
The Cure “The Last Day Of Summer” – Bloodflowers
Dick Dale “Temple Of Gizeh” – Calling Up Spirits
Jimi Hendrix Experience “Third Stone From The Sun” – Are You Experienced?
John Coltrane “I’m Old Fashioned” – Blue Train
Roxy Music “Sunset” – Stranded
Pamela Wyn Shannon “tree song” – Nature’s Bride www.girlhenge.com
***************
 Randy Stern “Into Your Heart” – Give CD www.randystern.info
Megan Slankard “Fair Enough And Farewell” – A Token Of The Wreckage CD www.meganslankard.com
Eleanor Fye “Best Place to Hide” – Love Stays On CD www.eleanorfye.com
*Cary Cooper “Nothing In The Middle” – Pink Umbrella CD www.carycooper.com
*Vance Gilbert “Go” – old white men CD www.vancegilbert.com
Caroline Herring “Maiden Voyage” – Camilla CD www.carolineherring.com
Liz Longley “Free” – hot loose wire CD www.lizlongley.com
********
 John Brodeur “Changing Your Mind” – Tiger Pop Ten CD www.johnbrodeur.com
Eliane Amherd “don’t give up on me” – Now And From Now On CD www.elianeperforms.com
Kristi Martel “Here In My House” – The Sacred Whore Demos CD www.kristimartel.com
John Batdorf “Real Life” – One Last Wish CD www.johnbatdorfmusic.com
the matthew show “Little Town” www.thematthewshow.com
Fellaheen “Unrealized” – Death & Frolic CD www.fellaheen.com
Jack Grace Band “Drank Yourself Into A Corner” – Drinking Songs For Lovers CD www.jackgrace.com
************
 *Professor Louie & The Crowmatix “Time Moves On” – Wings On Fire CD www.professorlouie.com
*Roosevelt Dime “Where Did You Go?” – Steamboat Soul CD www.rooseveltdimemusic.com
Tweed Funk “Fine Wine” – Love Is CD www.tweedfunk.com
Aqua Cherry “Seasons” – Drowning In The Shallow End CD www.facebook.com/aquacherry
Countless Thousands “The Devil And Davey Munch” – We’re Just Really Excited To Be Here CD www.countlessthousands.com
*Blue Sour “Mitzy” – S.U.A.D. CD www.bluesour.com
*HuDost “Carriage” – Trapeze CD www.hudost.com
**********
 These artists are performing at the upcoming CT Folk Festival, New Haven
CT, 9/8:
*Danielle Miraglia “Drive” – Box Of Troubles CD www.daniellem.com
Putnam Smith “this mountain ain’t my home” – we could be beekeepers CD www.putnamsmith.com
Brian Kalinec “Nowhere At All” – The Fence CD www.briankalinec.com
Loretta Hagen “Where Do I Go” – Mud and Stone CD www.lorettahagen.com
Fred Arcoleo “These Four Walls” – www.reverbnation.com/fredarcoleo
****
*Annie Wenz “Promised Land” – Ride The Sky CD www.anniewenz.com
*************
 *Susan Levine “Killing The Blues” – Atlas CD www.susanjlevine.com
*The Boxcar Lilies “Green River Blues” – heartwood CD www.boxcarlilies.com
*Beth DeSombre “Crawfordsville, Indiana” – At Home In This Town CD www.bethdesombre.com
Brother Sun “Shine” – s/t CD www.brothersunmusic.com
Lara Herscovitch “From A Bridge” – Four Wise Monkeys CD www.laraherscovitch.com
Fred Gillen Jr. “This Old Car” – Silence Of The Night CD www.fredgillenjr.com
Jean Mann “memory’s dusty road” – dream of goats CD www.jeanmann.net
*************
Closing music: Robert Sadin “Comment” – art of love: music of machaut CD www.robertsadin.com
Running time: 4 hours, 32 minutos.

All content of Radio Crystal Blue’s programming is free to listen and share
to via a Creative Commons License, version 3.0, full attribution,
non-derivative. For more info: www.creativecommons.org

Next show will be recorded and distributed in the week of 9/9/12

Dan Herman/Radio Crystal Blue:
cblue456@comcast.net
2159952234
www.radiocrystalblue.net
www.facebook.com/radiocblue
www.bigcontact.com/radiocrystalblu
twitter: @radiocblue

 

Leave a comment

Posted in Uncategorized

Tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Radio Crystal Blue 4/15/12 news

Posted on April 13, 2012 | Leave a comment

Radio Crystal Blue is sponsored in part by:
Ariel Publicity: www.arielpublicity.com
Miles High Productions www.mileshighproductions.com
Serge Entertainment Public Relations www.sergepr.com
Wampus Multimedia www.wampus.com

Radio Crystal Blue is free to share and listen, in accordance with Creative
Commons License 3.0, full attribution, non-derivative, non-commercial.
*************************************************************************
HOW TO LISTEN:
Feed Player at my home page of www.radiocrystalblue.net It is active as a
popup window. Within the page you can stream/share/download the audio. You
can put the player up on your site or blog too.
If you cannot access the Feed Player or do not have Shockwave/Flash in your
browser, try a different browser or go to www.bigcontact.com/radiocrystalblu
This page contains a bona fide workable version of the Feed Player.
RSS: www.bigcontact.com/radiocrystalblu/rss

This is the magic link to the popup player. It’s also at the home and
archive tabs of my website
http://fp.bigcontact.com/fp/flash/fp/fp.swf?xmlurl=http%3A%2F%2Fbigcontact.com%2Fradiocrystalblu%2Frss&r=1&t=1001

CONTACT:
EMAIL: cblue456@comcast.net
personal FACEBOOK: (spot my Western Haiku) www.facebook.com/radiocblue
RCB FACEBOOK: (no Haiku but..achoo) http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=20805478312
RCB DISCUSSION FACEBOOK group (dormant like your favorite volcano. This must change)
http://www.facebook.com/groups/273953255983866/
LINKEDIN: (biz) http://www.linkedin.com/danherman0
REVERBNATION: (dormant too) www.reverbnation.com/radiocrystalblue
VIDEO content: (not dormant for long) http://www.youtube.com/user/cblue456
that TWITTER thang @radiocblue
STAT BLOG (updated, and another coming Saturday): www.cblue456.tumblr.com
************************************************
NEXT SHOW will be published on or about April 18 and will be available for
about 4 months beyond. Owing to schedule demands, I usually aim for noon
Wednesdays or as soon as possible thereafter.
You will hear music in several segments of top indie/DIY/underground
songwriters and bands.
RCB Novus Ordo will also air separately. On this show I spin one song from
as many as 8 songs in one sitting and give you background info of each
artist.

*********************************************************************************
I can’t absolutely promise a show for Wednesday next week, as I’m getting this PC serviced on Sunday. It needs a general tune-up, plus more RAM and an external hard drive. It all depends on how available the RAM is. The PC is about 6 years young and could really use the upgrade. The waiting for sites to appear and emails to reply to just sap your DJ’s productivity at times. In the interim, I’ll likely be without said PC for a few days at worst.

PHOTOS: Having not done a photo album in a few weeks, finding myself in the Old City section of Philly, I figured I’d follow my intuition and take you with me on a freelance tour of several other old sections of town. Evidence here: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151492582955725.839968.684570724&type=1&l=280b4414a1
Tonight I’ll be covering an event at JR’s Bar here in South Philly. A Little Affair, pop-oriented rock trio from South Jersey, is in my focus. www.alittleaffairmusic.com
Showing some RCB LOVE to these folks that banged the drum about my show, all through the tubes. Right back atcha:
Severin Browne www.severinbrowne.com
Jodi Arlyn www.jodiarlyn.com
Michelle Fortier www.trespassmusic.com
John Roy Zat www.royzat.com
Jeanette Lundgren www.motherhenpromotions.com
Dance Hall Pimps www.dancehallpimps.com
Kellylee Evans www.kellyleeevans.com
Ariel Hyatt and all at @cyperpr
Helen Austin @helenaustin
The K’s @theks
Twitter action this week reveals these thoughts:
*My favorite venues and towns to recite on my shows.
*An underused software that rivals anything by Microsoft
*Discovery of caffeine-laden jerky. This, following discovery of a great coffee substitute.
*the words I chose for #replacebandnameswithbacon and @herestothe90s
*the introductory order of inspired rock phrases that have no connection but it was fun trying
*yes, Western Haiku. Unlike Western omelette (not safe for Twitter)
Um, there was a fire a block away during a red flag warning. It can happen to an old house. Be watchful as I said earlier that day. That day, when 2 firefighters in Kensington lost their lives in an early morning blaze.
Reading a book I picked up at Molly’s, a book/record store (YES, these exist) within the Italian Market. “Women Of The Beat Generation” chronicles the poets, writers, visual artists and others prominent in the San Francisco Renaissance and Greenwich Village scenes. Many names referenced that I never knew of. A great book from 1996.
*************************************************
TWITTER FIVE TO FOLLOW: These are the last 5 folks that I’m following who
follow back: @jonathanlulich @thebarryband @Get_Bumble @westucker @GailNCalifornia
*****************************************************
COVERAGE:
I do audio interviews, photos, video, and audio of live events. You can see
and hear evidence across my Facebook and YouTube channels, plus the field
recording FeedPlayer.Time, location and expense will be taken into account
before taking on a job.
********************************************************************
RCB REVIEW: The annotated version of my shows.
On RCB Novus Ordo: Mr. Hunter returns with a concept album “The First Chapter”, with reflections on “life, nature, dreams, and following what you believe in.”. Dance Hall Pimps are a firebrand of greasy swampy blues rock; they come courtesy of sponsor Miles High Productions. Jon Sobel’s NYC roots rock band Whisperado returns with a 4th member (pedal steel) and their first full-length album. Severin Browne is the brother of Jackson Browne; he debuts on this show as well. Dave Kleiner & Liz Pagan are founders of NJ’s The Folk Project, and often sing of rural NJ life.
RCB proper: I began this show with my favorite Dylan tune”Just Like Tom Thumb’s Blues”, I also aired a snippet of Earl Scruggs’ “Back To The Cross” while I recited the opening lines to Jack Kerouac’s 1952 novel “Tristessa”. At once I was reflecting Juarez, Mexico at large, the rain, and …wasn’t it just Easter, as Dylan sings in the opening? Segment 1 starts with old folk sounds from Andrew McKnight (AP Carter) and Kris Delmhorst (e.e. cummings). 2 songs with similar chords and feel followed from Jack Grace and Yarn.  Segment 2: The Symbols & Fierce Bad Rabbit are among the teeming dozens performing at this year’s FoCoMx (Fort Collins, CO) festival this weekend. I thoroughly enjoy the incendiary sounds of Lukas Nelson (Willie’s son) & Promise Of The Real. The song “Wasn’t that great” has a strong Neil Young & Crazy Horse feel to it. Segment 3: Raina Rose & Rebecca Loebe are doing their Flourida tour (Florida & tour). Lauren Adams hosts the monthly Americana Music Cicle in Los Angeles. I spun her cover of an Ernest Troost song, following up with one of Ernest’s off his “Live At McCabe’s” CD. He is the featured artist at Lauren’s latest Circle. Segment 4: Debuted (the) Debbie Miller’s new EP, experimenting with a few new sounds.

AIRPLAY SUBMISSION:
Send CDs to
Dan Herman
Radio Crystal Blue
1701 Snyder Avenue, #4
Philadelphia, PA 19145
CDs MUST have a 2012 release date or have been released no earlier than July
2011. No exceptions.
Artists are also advised to add my email address to their general (not
local/regional) email list.

I also accept EPKs through these companies. For EPK submissions I select
artists on their body of work and the completeness of the press kit
SONICBIDS: http://www.sonicbids.com/radiocrystalblue
MusicSUBMIT: www.musicsubmit.com.
(For those in Australia) GIG LAUNCH: www.giglaunch.com.au
All you have to do is a search on these sites for Radio Crystal Blue.

Any compelling compilation/concept CDs can also be sent here directly. I’m
seeking material that can be featured, song-for-song, in my CD FOCUS
segments.
*********
namaste

Dan Herman
Radio Crystal Blue
www.radiocrystalblue.net
http://www.bigcontact.com/radiocrystalblu
cblue456@comcast.net
@radiocblue on twitter
215 995 2234

Leave a comment

Posted in Uncategorized

Tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,